The Interview Section

This is an interview carried out by Robert Laird, Editor of “Boab’s little piece of Scotland” Website with Billy Pirie.

I'm sure all who read this will find it very open and frank, as it gives a personal insight into Billy Pirie's views and feelings throughout his Footballing life.

He tells it as it is in an honest but modest way.  Billy Pirie really is a Dundee Legend.

 

Robert: You were one of my heroes when at Dens did you realise how much in high regard the fans actually held you?

 

Billy Pirie: Not really it was a bit of a shock actually I went to the Legends Night out at the Hilton in 2002 and I was flabbergasted.  I wasn’t even prepared, though they made that much noise they probably never heard what I was saying.  I was shaking like a leaf, but I was quite happy as it was a terrific night out which I really enjoyed.

 

RL: I remember you used to win a crate of whisky quite regularly for every hat-trick you scored.  How many Hat-tricks did you score that Season?

 

BP: I think I won five crates.

 

RL: Did those crates manage to survive the dressing room or were Big Sinky, Glennie and Redford right in there?

 

BP: To be honest the dressing room wasn’t spirit drinkers, it was all pint drinkers.  The only one that drunk spirits was Gordon Strachan, he was a Vodka and Coke man, mind you the size of him two pints probably would have filled him up.  Though he now practices bananas.

 

When I won the player of the year award Ian Gellaty wanted me to fill the cup, I probably would have done it, if I hadn’t found out from the J&B representative that the Club also got a Crate of whisky too.  So I told Gellaty to fill it as he must have plenty bottles since there were only 3 Directors to share them between.

 

I won a couple of Gallon bottles that year as well for winning the Player of the Month awards.  I gave one to my dad and I’m sure Gemmell ripped me off with the other.  I wasn’t a whisky drinker what could I do with a gallon of whisky?  Now if it had been a gallon of beer I could have shifted that.

 

Jimmy Johnstone used to stay with Tommy Gemmell at the time and at the end of a night out with a few of us, myself and Bobby Hutchison would be heading for the train home when we’d see Jimmy staggering towards the Seagate Bus Station to get the bus back to Errol.  He never drunk in Gemmell’s Hotel, it was the pub across the road he drank in. 

 

He shared a room with Ian McDougall, so when he left the pub at closing time the Hotel would be locked up, so Jimmy would throw a couple of chuckies at the window and of course the chuckies got bigger when McDougall wouldn’t answer.  Eventually one was big enough to break the window and all the lights would go on.

 

A couple of days later Jimmy was found across the road in the same pub, by the Reporter Tommy Gallacher.  He was found with his arm around the Juke Box playing his favourite tune “You picked a fine time to leave me Lucille.”  I’ll never forget that, but Jimmy was a character and Gemmell just took a chance on him at that time as he cost nothing.

 

RL: You played in South Africa in your early years with Arcadia, you even had a short spell in America with New York Apollos and Australia with Sydney Club Apia.  Not many players can claim to have played in Leagues in 4 different Continents, what was that like compared to Scottish Football and do you have any memories from those days that stick in your mind, firstly South Africa?

 

BP:  I actually played for Sydney Olympic before Sydney Club Apia as I’d had three spells in Australia.

 

My senior career really started in South Africa when a former Scottish Internationalist John Hewie was Player/Manager of Arcadia Shepherds.  I arrived at 7 am and was picked up to be flown down to Durban at 2pm I was only supposed to be going along for the ride.

 

We went into the Stadium and it was massive even then and the team was announced Centre forward Pirie.  I thought I was only going for the ride but it was decided to throw me in at the deep end. 

 

The Team we were playing had Tony Macedo the English U-23 Goalkeeper with Fulham, Right Midfield Johnny Haynes the former England Captain.  Centre Forward Johnny Byrne ex England also.  We were beaten 4-1 and I managed to score.  So my first game in South Africa and I scored.  I ended up top scorer that season.

 

I actually met Alex Hamilton whilst in South Africa he played for Mareksburg whilst I was playing for Arcadia Shepherds.

We met again when I was in Dundee we were in the Three Barrels and he was true to form being the character he was and still full of the patter.  He told me he was going to be the next Manager of Dundee and I would be his Captain.  "I said that's fine, but I'm the Captain of the Club already".

 

The following season I was top scorer also but I returned home to get married to my wife Lynda.  On my honeymoon I broke out in a sweat and started to cough blood, I went to see the Doctor thinking I’d maybe had a couple of rounds too many celebrating the wedding, but it turned out I’d contracted TB whilst in South Africa. I was convalescing for 3 months in Aberdeen and contacted Arcadia to say I was available again, but never heard from them.  So I decided to try out for the Banks Of Dee Juniors as that’s who I’d played for during my Junior days.

 

I informed them of my circumstances regarding South Africa so they were going to write to them whilst I got fit.  I told them I was fit enough and I was just after a game of Football.  Since they had to get clearance they were willing to play me in a friendly against Peterhead depending on how I performed in training.

 

I was put on at the start of the second half when they were trailing 1-0 the game finished 1-1 with me scoring.  By the time I got home the Manager of Huntly was knocking at my door and said he’d been at the game, he liked what he’d seen and wondered if I fancied playing for them on the Wednesday.  Since I was only after a game of Football I said yes so I guested against Stoney Wood Juniors and Huntly won 7-2 with me scoring 5, the Manager was determined to sign me so said he’d get my registration sorted out.

 

Within 3 months I’d scored 38 goals for Huntly and everything was going great.  Huntly had reached the Highland Cup Final for the first time in 15 years it was then the Manager came up to me and said he had some good and bad news for me.  Mansfield Town were interested in signing me, but I’d been suspended from playing Football because Arcadia had put in a protest.  I wasn’t too chuffed about this as a few weeks of haggling went on and in between my letters to Arcadia Shepherds they had got a new Manager Kia Johansen the former Rangers player, so he arranged to meet me in Glasgow and he said that without a doubt I was a South African registered player.  I told him not anymore as my contract was up I was going back to sign a new one, but I’d never heard a reply from Arcadia so that’s when I decided to start playing again.  I didn’t want to go back now as Huntly had been very good to me where as Arcadia had never tried to help me whatsoever.

 

Kia then said he’d sell me to Crystal Palace, I said I didn’t want to go to Crystal Palace, I was happy at Huntly they had been very loyal to me and kept paying me during my 3 month suspension so my loyalty was to Huntly.  A deal was struck that I’d be allowed to play again under the understanding that Arcadia would receive half of any sell on fee Huntly received.  So this was agreed and I was able to play against Peterhead that Saturday it was a 1-1 draw I scored and Willie Miller scored for Peterhead.

 

I was transferred to Arbroath which was a deal between the two Chairmen who both were Potato Merchants, so with 13 games left they were 3^rd in the League, by the end of the Season Arbroath had managed to gain promotion to the Old first Division to play against the Lisbon Lions and the likes of that.

 

So from being in my hospital bed to playing in the Highland League, then the Scottish top league everything was going terrific.  Even in the top league I was scoring goals regularly.

 

RL:  Looks like Arcadia Shepherds were due a few Potatoes then.  How did you come to be in the United States?

 

BP: After playing so well for Arbroath, I was then transferred to Aberdeen in the Premier League for £40,000 and that’s the only black spot, as when I left Arbroath I never received any of the transfer money from them.  That kind of hurt especially when they tried to sign me when Ally McLeod decided to let me go.  They weren’t willing to agree to my terms so Ayr United under Alec Stuart wanted me and a fee was agreed.  I hadn’t actually signed anything so I went to play in the States for New York Apollos and think over Ayr United’s terms. 

 

So I played in the States for a month.  First game I scored on my debut again, I seemed to manage that for most Teams I’d played for.  There were a couple of Irish Internationalists playing there too and I was earning good money, plus my wife was expecting.

 

One night we went out for a couple of drinks and one of the Irish guys was assaulted by a guy with a knife.  The club didn’t really look after the players that well, as I was stuck in a Motel and only really saw anyone at training twice a week and Match days.  I decided this wasn’t for me, plus I was worried about Lynda as she was about due.  So I phoned Davie White and he must have been keeping an eye on me as he’d known I’d scored a few goals for New York Apollos, so I told him I’d pack my bags and sign.  I flew back a couple of days later and since my Wife never wanted to move from Stonehaven I decided not to go to Ayr and sign for Dundee as they were willing to let me travel.

 

RL:  So you joined Dundee from Aberdeen via America, how did you end up in Australia?

 

BP:  Whilst at Dundee after my first season I was allowed to play in Australia during the close season. George Blewes had heard I’d come back from the States and asked if I fancied guesting in Australia.   Sydney Olympic were a Greek Team and they were playing the top of the League in my first game, I scored the winner in a 3-2 victory and the Greeks carried me off the Park and to be quite honest I’d never had a reaction like that before.  They took me back to the Club and bought me drink all night.  The Manager was fair chuffed as I don’t think he expected the player he was getting in me.

 

After a couple of games he told me if I carried on like that I’d maybe get Lynda and the kids out, since I was on my own I thought this would be very good.  So we played against Sydney Apia the Team Willie Wallace was associated with later.  After scoring a couple of goals in that game I mentioned about when I could ask Lynda and the kids out, so was told if I scored against the Brisbane Lions who Jim Hetherston the Ex-Aberdeen Captain was now playing for.  He was at Aberdeen during my spell there.  I think that was Sydney Olympics biggest win in the National League and I scored a hat-trick.

 

Again I went back to the Club asking about getting my family out it was then he admitted he hadn’t talked to the Chairman about this deal.  I’d already told Lynda to get her passport ready.  So I told him since he hadn’t asked the Chairman I was heading home as after two weeks I was pretty annoyed at the situation.  It was then the Chairman came over and said he hadn’t been told about this, so he talked with a couple of the Directors and told me my wife and kids would be over that Tuesday.

 

I was out there for the 6 weeks of the close season and it was terrific.  They even gave me a big banquet when I left.  I played 8 games for them and scored 14 goals.  So add that to the 44 for Dundee that season it was a terrific season.  At the banquet they offered me a contract, as freedom of contract was being talked about back in those days.  We came to an agreement and I signed the contract but if nothing came of freedom of contract I wouldn’t be able to stay so it didn’t really make much difference.

 

Then for appreciation of my services my wife Lynda was presented with a bouquet of flowers and I received a cheque for $500.

 

I’d just touched down back in Scotland when Gemmell sent for me as he’d just been appointed Manager and he wanted to see my contract.  I told him it was nothing to do with him as if Freedom of contract came about I could be away to Australia.

 

Gemmell said I couldn’t do that, I asked why, he just answered Club policy.  I had an agreement with Davie White that if there was ever an offer came in for me he’d tell me and I’d just spoken to Ron Scott who had told me Billy Bremner of Hull City had put in an offer of £100,000 for me, so if that was Club policy why wasn’t I told of that?  He just said that’s nothing to do with you, so I replied well my Australian contract is nothing to do with you.  So that was me and Gemmell in his first season as Manager not seeing eye to eye and I never think we ever did, but with me scoring goals he couldn’t do anything about it.

 

The following year I had another Season in Australia when Dundee went on tour, I left them in Sydney after we had played Perth, Brisbane and Newcastle, Dundee then went onto New Zealand and Los Angeles. 

 

I actually moved to Sydney Apia after I’d left Dundee in 1980.  My first ever trip to Australia was actually with Aberdeen when I scored 10 goals in 7 games, so it’s safe to say Australia was a happy hunting ground for me.

 

RL: You mentioned that you never saw eye to eye with Gemmell what was your relationship with Davie White like?

 

BP:  When I met Davie White, Shuggy Robertson was still there at that time I’d played with Shuggy at Arbroath.  He told me he’d tried to get Dundee to sign me at the same time Aberdeen came in for me, I sometimes wish they had as I wasted a couple of years at Aberdeen.  They played me on the wing and in Midfield in the reserves, my last game for Aberdeen was actually the reserve League Cup final against Dundee.  We drew 1-1 at Pittodrie with me in Midfield, in the return leg at Dens I was played up front and I scored 3 of the goals in the 4-1 victory.

 

Davie White had obviously remembered that as he told me the only time I’d get into trouble from him was if I never got into the box to be on the end of any cross balls, he didn’t want me chasing fullbacks.  I think for the first 6 to 8 games for Dundee I was the only player to actually score with maybe Ian Purdie scoring one that included a hat-trick I scored against Motherwell.  We reached the Scottish Cup Semi-final that year also.

 

Sinky was the ideal partner for me I couldn’t hold him in any more regard, he just suited me right down to the ground. 

 

As mentioned earlier Davie and I had a good understanding even if another club came in for me.

 

The only reason I left Dens was because Gemmell was only playing me in home games, because he was just trying to stay in the Premier League, at that time I felt I needed to be playing games every week, in fact in my final season I think I still ended up top scorer with 18 goals.

 

RL: What is your most memorable moment in Football?

 

BP:  It must be winning the Player of the year award with Dundee in my first season and having the likes of Gemmell and Wallace telling me how good a striker I was.

 

RL:  What has been your worst moment in Football?

 

BP:  Probably missing out on a Cap for Scotland.  I feel if it wasn’t for Ally McLeod I would have been capped against a Highland League select but Doug Somner was picked instead.  To me it would still have been a Scotland Cap.  I feel it was because Ally McLeod had given me a free transfer, he wasn’t going to admit in making an error.  He still had to hand over the Player of the year top scorer of Britain award to me that Season.

 

RL:  Do you feel you were giving a fair chance under Ally McLeod after Jimmy Bonthrone left Aberdeen?

 

BP:   I actually spoke with Jimmy when he was on the committee with East Fife and he said if he had his time again he’d still have signed me. 

 

Joe Harper invited me to the Aberdeen Dinner Dance that same year and I caught Ally McLeod shaking his head at me as I was standing with a pint in my hand.  I asked him why he was shaking his head and he turned to Martin Buchan and said I could have been the best striker in Scotland if it hadn’t been for that.

 

I thought what a hypocrite as wee "Humpty" (Harper) was standing next to us and could hardly stand and I was still fine, so I gave him a mouthful.  After seeing his story on TV recently I felt sorry for him and felt I’d just let bygones be bygones.

 

RL:  Was missing out on the game against the Highland League select the nearest you’ve been to representing Scotland at any level?

 

BP:  When I played for the Bank’s Of Dee Junior side I was scheduled for an International trial at Gayfield, for the Scotland Junior side but I was injured.

 

RL: What’s your opinion of the current Dundee team?

 

BP:  I only see them on the TV and I notice they have some very good players there.  A lot better than there’s been in previous years and I hope they can keep them together as I was reading about Jim Duffy might having to let one or two of them go to reduce the debt.

 

RL:  Who do you admire most football wise in the current Dundee squad?

 

BP:  Nemsadze he’s a very good player and Caballero as well is a very gifted player.  I’m still not too sure about Lee Wilkie, I think he will become a very good player.

 

 

RL:  How many goals have you scored at senior level?

 

BP:  I can’t really put a figure on it I just know that every team that I went to I scored goals, even at Aberdeen, although I didn’t play a lot of first team games for them apart from Harper and Jarvie my ratio was excellent.  This was confirmed by Len Findlay of the Daily Record who ended up as a Newspaper Editor in Australia.

 

Everywhere I’ve went I’ve been a successful goal scorer.

 

RL:  What has been your most memorable goal?

 

BP:  Well I scored a lot of very good ones for Dundee, one that sticks in my head would be when we beat Morton 3-2 at Cappielow.  I received the ball from a throw-in, I cut in along the by line and I couldn’t have been more than a couple of feet from the by line when I just hit it and it stuck in the back stanchion.   It turned out to be a disappointment though as we thought we’d been promoted only to find out Hearts had scored a last minute winner to pip us at the post.

 

It was 25 years ago so it’s difficult remembering other one’s, I scored a lot of good free kicks also.  I was always able to bend the ball.

 

RL:  Who was your closest friend at the club?

 

BP:  That would have to be Hutchy he was even my travelling companion, Jocky also though if Jocky wasn’t in the mood he wouldn’t speak to anybody. 

 

RL:  Was there a particular joker at the club when you were there?

 

BP:  We got a loan of one from Montrose, Les Barr he had a different joke every day.  Bobby Glennie too, I knew him from Aberdeen he used to clean my boots.  He ended up replacing me as Dundee team Captain.  Bobby was always good fun.  He went on for quite a bit after I left.

 

RL:  Do you get a chance to watch much Football now?

 

BP:  Well I work in my pub most of the time, but Sky Sports is always on.  It’s just getting the time to sit down and watch it.  I’ve been invited a couple of times by Tennent’s the Brewers so I try to get down as much as I can.

 

I also have the pub team “The Albert Bar”which has been very successful recently we are the current League Champions and have a chance of retaining the title.  It’s been a bit of a struggle as I’ve even had to play myself a couple of times, one was an away game when we were going through on a 32 seater bus it was supposed to be full if everyone that had put their names up had turned up, it ended up we took 16 people. Three of those were supporters the other guy was the Secretary and he’s carrying more weight than me, so I ended up going on to see how we’d do, we never disgraced ourselves we ended up getting beaten 4-2.

 

RL:   Did you score?

 

BP:  No I nearly did but the keeper saved it.  I’ve played three games but haven’t found the net yet but had a couple of assists I was brought down for a penalty and a guy handled one that was going in.  One guy called me a fat B******d and I did my groin in trying to catch him.  So that’s made my mind up not to play again.

 

RL:  What are your favourite past-times away from Football?

 

BP:  Well I play Darts on Mondays and Pool on Thursdays, but I really enjoy Golf I currently play off 13, but when I played up at Aberdeen there were a few good Golfers up there and in my first season with them I won the Scottish Professional Footballers at Carnoustie,  I was playing off 4 by then.  It was a real surprise to me winning that, it was the first prize I’d picked up with Aberdeen.

 

RL:  What’s your own personal ambition in life?

 

BP:  I’ve had the pub for a while, we thought about maybe moving abroad, but now the grandchild has arrived I look forward to spending time with them.  We’re off to the Bahamas on holiday so looking forward to having a good time there. 

 

RL:  Which Teams do you admire excluding Dundee of course?

 

BP:  I always have a soft spot for Aberdeen with coming from there and Arbroath.  I’m hoping to be invited to the Aberdeen Centenary Celebrations, I spoke to Billy Williamson when I was in Australia a few years ago and he’s coming across and will be staying with me.  So hopefully we can arrange to come down for a game, and I can get in touch with Glennie for a get together.

 

RL:  Thank you very much Billy for the Interview that’s been very insightful and I’m sure the fans will love to read what your viewpoints are as there was a lot of very informative material discussed.

 

 

 

Billy at his pub the Albert Bar in Market Street Montrose
Dundee fans are welcome to drop in anytime.

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