I'm sure all who read this will find it very interesting, as it gives a personal insight into Pat Liney's views and feelings throughout his Footballing life.
He tells it all in an honest but modest way. Pat Liney really is a Dundee Legend and was very popular where ever he played with Fans and Managers alike. This is an interview carried out by Robert Laird, Editor of “Boab’s little piece of Scotland” Website with Pat Liney.
Pat’s a very humorous man, we’d just met and he was making a joke of the fact I was carrying his Tray, “Was this in case I dropped it?” he quirked.
The last Pat remembers seeing his Medal was in 1978, during his move up to Blairgowrie from Yorkshire.
“The medal is not something you carry about with you unless someone asks to see it and that’s what happened a few months later. One of my work colleagues was visiting and we happened to get talking about Football and he asked to see it. When I couldn’t find it I started suspecting it had been stolen, but you always hope it will turn up when you’re not looking for it. As time went on I just began to think well that’s it gone.”
It was the week before the Livingston defeat when Pat happened to be at a garage phoning in an order, that he started to flick through the pages of a newspaper whilst being on hold and spotted his photograph and the article about his Medal being up for Auction.
Pat was angry and headed straight to Bell Street Police Station to report the fact he’d lost it 27 years ago and Tayside Police contacted their counterparts at Ripon in Yorkshire. They put Pat onto the Auctioneers who then removed the Medal from their Auction. It was whilst speaking with their Security man he’d asked where it had been found.
Apparently a respectable looking gentleman had handed it in with some family heirlooms for Auction and the Medal was amongst the art and furniture.
The man claims to have found the Medal in a house he’d moved into back in 1972/73, which was surprising since Pat only lost the Medal in 1978?
The gentleman is prepared to give Pat the Medal back as he doesn’t wish to be charged with theft by finding? If you don’t try to find the person within reason then this charge can be brought against you. Well Pat’s name was on the Medal along with that of Dundee Football Club and as Pat said, “If you come across something like that innocently you’d have to assume they would automatically try contact the Football Club to try get it returned?” So that’s where the current story of the Medal sits at the moment. Pat’s just so pleased and over the moon to be getting it back.
Pat’s ambition was always to be a Football Player from a very young age. The nearest he got to playing for Scotland was at Schoolboy level, he was selected to go to Stirling for the Schoolboy trials, an opportunity he missed due to playing for his local Juvenile Club in a Cup match, much to the annoyance of his teachers who found out, they were so proud the fact the School was going to be represented by two of their pupils and both of them feigned injury so they could play in the Cup game, as they didn’t want to let their pals down. They both got a real bollocking.
He was an intelligent child that was the Dux of his local Primary School in Linwood and he then moved onto the Academy. He knew if he carried on and did his Highers’, then went to University something his family probably couldn’t afford anyway, he’d still have to do his National Service so it would mean he wouldn’t be available to start earning a living until he was about 24.
He was from a big family of 8 sisters and one brother and with his father trying to support such a big family Pat had already decided to concentrate on professional Football to get out of his home Village so he left School at the age of 15 to his teachers horror.
He started his career playing with Linwood St Convals, from there he went to Dalry Thistle, an Ayrshire town which boasts the talents of Jim Leighton, Bill McMillen and another Dundee legend in Ian Ure. It was whilst playing with Dalry in a Cup match that he attracted the interest of Dundee. Pat had saved 5 Penalties in the Cup Fixture which had stretched over 3 ties.
Pat’s debut for Dundee was against Rangers at Ibrox in a 1-0 Victory and it will always be a great memory. Pat was playing in the reserves on the Friday night and it was the last game of the season on a bone hard dried out pitch. He suffered from severe grass burns to his hips which were weeping all night. So he was still limping the next morning when meeting up with the squad going to Glasgow. Manager Wullie Thorton asked “Are you injured?”
Pat replied “No it’s just a little bit of grass burn, why?”
“You’re playing” was Wullie’s reply.
It turned out Bill Brown had been sent home with a virus and that’s how Pat had come to be thrust into the first team on the 10th May 1958. Pat was on cloud nine and called one of the more affluent neighbours from the St George’s Hotel in Glasgow to tell his Dad and Uncle to get along to the game as he’d got them two tickets. Well in those days working class families never had a phone.
They got to the game late so missed the team announcements but arrived just in time to see the players coming out on to the pitch. Pat recalls his Uncle telling him, I had to point out to his Dad, “Hey that’s your Pat out there.”
Pat in his excitement had remembered to tell them he had tickets, but forgot to tell them he was actually playing.
The atmosphere was electric but he never felt nervous during the game. It was only after the final whistle was blown and when he went to pick up his cap from the goal he actually realised how big a crowd there was and the noise they were making that the shock finally sunk in. It was a great Baptism.
It can be argued that Pat made the most significant contribution to Dundee’s Championship winning season with the Penalty save in the penultimate game against his boyhood team of St Mirren.
Pat recalled that Dundee had played St Mirren earlier in the season in the Cup and his dad who was a St Mirren diehard came through for the game. His dad had told him if St Mirren get a penalty, Clunie takes them and always hammers it towards the top right hand corner. Although St Mirren never got a penalty in that game Pat always remembered the advice from his father. Pat was a prolific penalty stopper anyway, because he did his homework on penalty takers.
In Pat’s opinion the penalty should never have been awarded in the first place as the arm it hit wasn’t Gordon Smith’s but Wullie Fernies. He remembered the Dundee players surrounding the referee and linesman in protest.
Pat never got involved in the arguments as he always knew in his own mind he’d save the penalty anyway. He thinks there was more pressure on Jim Clunie as he looked nervous when he put the ball on the spot probably due to the delay with the arguments around the decision. When Clunie threw his leg at the ball, Pat just launched himself across and got a hand to the ball. After initially parrying it he caught it and threw the ball out to Gordon Smith.
As Pat puts it, “I threw the ball out a lot, because the players were so good a long kick down the park was no good for a good side like that.”
Gordon Smith went down the wing beating two players, he looked up and there was no one there, as the forwards were still patting Pat on the back. He then brought the ball back to the halfway line still beating men until the forwards could get back up field, it was amazing and something only Gordon Smith could have done like that.
At the time Pat never realised the significance of the penalty save until Gordon Smith spoke to him after the game. Gordon said “You realise that if we win the League on Saturday you will be famous in Dundee forever.” He was correct as no matter what Pat did before or after he was always remembered for that penalty save in Dundee.
Although Pat felt every game he played was memorable the Championship Season was just unbelievable. The players realised after the St Mirren game they were going to win the Championship on the Saturday at Muirton, there was a party at the City Chambers later that night and Pat along with Gordon Smith just drank orange juice all night, Pat just wanted to stay sober and saviour every minute, as the feeling was brilliant and that feeling will always be there and never go away in his memories.
Pat was disappointed at losing his place at Dundee, but feels it was due to qualifying for Europe, the team needed two experienced keepers and Ally Donaldson was still just only17 years old. Pat knew that when Managers sign a player they usually will want to play them and he accepted that this would work in his favour later in his own career also as he remembered having a few poor games with St Mirren but knew since he’d been signed by Jackie Cox he’d still get the nod, so in reflection he wasn’t too disappointed.
The only real disappointment was the fact Bob Shankly had said “Now I have two experienced keepers I’ll play one until they get injured or have a bad run.”
Pat couldn’t argue with that reasoning, the Manager after all has to have cover. The problem arose when Bert got injured against Cologne and Pat played against Rangers on the Saturday and after having a good game in the draw he felt he had won his place back, but when the team lines went up for the next game it was back to ‘Slater’, ‘Hamilton’ and ‘Cox’, that’s when he realised he never really had a future in Dundee’s 1st eleven and put in for a transfer request.
Pat is positive he would have stayed at Dens until he retired if he had kept his place after the Rangers game. He had no axe to grind with Bert Slater it was just annoying at the time. In fact Pat rated Bert very highly as a keeper. He believes Bert’s Scottish Cup final display at Hampden in 1964 was the best he’d seen since Jimmy Cowan’s at Wembley in 1947/48 when Scotland won 3-1. Bert had a game where he was stopping everything it was a great display of goalkeeping. One to be known as ‘Slater’s Final’.
Despite losing his place and asking for a transfer request, Pat had the utmost respect for Bob Shankly and maintains he was the best Manager he had ever played under. He never pushed things down your throat, his philosophy was he picked the players and they all had a job to do, he’d train them, while Sammy Kean coached them and they got on with the job in hand.
Training consisted of fitness training during the pre-season to get fitness levels up, then a few laps to loosen up during the season then most of the work would be done with the ball.
The Players in those days like Bobby Seith, Gordon Smith and Bobby Wishart all could read the game and see what was going wrong without needing to look at the bench and they’d tell the others how to counteract the opponents until half-time, then Bob Shankly would reorganise to put pressure back on the opposition. On the field the players took responsibility to change things without asking the Manager.
There was an incident during one of the games in Championship season when playing Stirling Albion, Gillie hit a shot which went in the goal just inside the post. Everyone went up celebrating the goal, the ball had ended up on the running track beside the goal. The next thing Reggie Morrison quick thinking picked the ball up and put it on the six yard line to take a goal kick. The referee Wullie Brittle was going to let it go, so all the lads started arguing “that was in, that was in”
The referee had just seen the ball on the running track and assumed it had missed. The protests were there must be a hole in the net, so the referee went to the linesman who never realised it was a goal either. They managed to convince the referee to check the net and right enough one of the pegs had come out.
The team were all good friends too which helped, there were never any fallouts, Hammy would always have a story, one of his favourites used to be, “Me and Bobby Cox have got 26 Caps between us, I’ve got 25 of them.”
Another incident was during the Friendship Cup in France, Shug Robertson had a go at this big French guy, the Frenchman chased him up the park so, Shug ran away and stood beside Ian Ure. The guy got the idea and went away again and this was while the game was still going on.
Pat was pulled in once by Bob Shankly for being seen in a pub. It was common knowledge that he wasn’t a drinker, the only time Pat went into the Bar was to get a couple of cans of beer for his wife’s workmates boyfriend and a couple of packets of crisps and bottles of lemonade and maybe a packet of fags. He never actually drank in the pub. The only time he did was the christening of his eldest son.
Shankly : ”what’s this I’m hearing that you’re never out the Steps Bar?”
“I’ve never been in the Steps Bar drinking apart from my sons christening” Pat replied.
Shankly: “Well you go in the Snug.”
“Yes on a Wednesday night for a couple of cans of beer and bottles of lemonade when we’ve got visitors.”
Shankly: “Well do your shopping in the shop not the pub.”
Bob was very strict when it came to discipline.
So Pat almost got the reputation for being a boozer because he was in the Bar on Wednesday nights for 2 minutes.
Pat always liked the big games when he played, he’d rather be playing against the likes of Rangers, Celtic, Hibs and Hearts, than the lesser teams. In those days even St Mirren went into the games against the Old firm expecting at least a draw. Dundee went into those games expecting to win.
Pat never got the opportunity to play in goal for Scotland at Senior level as Bill Brown was in command of that position and he was the best in Europe at that time. Pat believed you had to be really special to get a cap in those days if you never played for Rangers or Celtic, Bobby Cox was the perfect example of that, he was the best Fullback in Scotland over all the years he played yet never got a full Cap. If he had played for Rangers or Celtic Pat was sure Bobby would have had as many Caps as Hammy, or more.
Even after putting in his transfer request, Bob Shankly never wanted Pat to leave and turned down offers from a number of Clubs. Including offers from Jerry Kerr (Dundee United) and Wullie Thornton (Partick Thistle) who had signed Pat for Dundee. Pat would have signed for Partick as he liked Wullie as a person, he was probably not as good a Manager as Bob, but he was a nice guy to work for.
Eventually Pat was allowed to leave and sign for St Mirren, as they were desperate for an experienced goalkeeper after Dick Petrie had been sent to Prison for Pools fiddling. Jackie Cox was their Manager and a friend of Bob’s, so Pat was allowed to leave and play for the Team he supported as a boy, which pleased and suited Pat as he wanted first team football.
Whilst with St Mirren Pat recalls one particular match against Dundee United at ‘Love Street’. St Mirren scored a penalty to go ahead then United were awarded a penalty and Dennis Gillespie took it and Pat saved it. United were then awarded another penalty and no one really wanted to take it, so Jimmy Briggs decided he’d take it. Pat had never seen Jimmy take a penalty so worked on the theory he strikes a ball well and hits it hard, so he’d stay in the middle of the goal. Pat’s uncanny knack of judging penalty takers worked again, as he put his hands up straight in front of his face and the ball stuck.
After the game Jerry Kerr invited Pat to go back to Dundee on the United bus, which Pat gladly accepted. So he played cards with the United players and won £20 off of them. The United bus stopped off at the Dunblane Hydro so the Players could have a meal on the way back. Pat was just going to stay on the coach when Jerry Kerr came back and insisted he joined them for the meal.
It was a great day for Pat, he’d saved two penalties against United, picked up his win bonus, got a lift home, took £20 off the players at cards and got a free meal at the Hydro.
This was not the only time Pat had saved two penalties in a game, he had also saved two in Season 1965/66 League Cup section games against Morton one from Joe Harper and one from one of the Scandinavian players. Hibs were also in the group section and on the Wednesday night he saved another penalty against Hibs from Pat Quinn. In the second leg of the tie, Hibs were awarded another penalty and he saved Jim O’Rourke’s effort. Hibs were then awarded another penalty and the usual problem of who will take it arose. Eventually the left back strode up to take it, Pat’s calculations were, “well it’s a fullback so he will just blast it to the right.” It was one of the few times Pat made a major miscalculation the left back just stroked it and he never realised he was actually right footed so dived the wrong way.
So he saved 4 penalties out of 5 in just one week. Pat recalls saying to his team mates “I think the referees are just giving penalties now to see if I will save them.” That’s certainly the way it looked to Pat.
Pat’s penalty saving was prolific, so much so he has lost count of how many he has saved in his Professional career in total, it would be interesting to find out if he was a record holder of any sort.
Pat admits to having some howlers himself as a goalkeeper, when the old T leather ball was replaced with the white ball, it gave him a few problems as it had a tendency to swing more in the air. Pat confessed “it would usually be the tame shot that would cause the problem, you’d be thinking what you were going to do next with the ball before gathering it, then it would swing at the last minute and you’d be too late to react. John Greg scored one that way against him when Rangers were playing St Mirren at Love Street he hit a 30 yarder straight down Pat’s throat then it swerved at the last minute and went into the net. That would probably be the worst howler he recalled.
Pat’s glad he doesn’t play nowadays where every error is analysed to death, as a player you knew when you’d made a mistake and you felt bad about it, you just wanted to put it out of your mind until the next ball or game came along. Now you’re not allowed to as the press are dwelling on it all the time now. Every time a programme comes on you see all the errors being shown over and over again there’s no need for it, as the Manager is already going to give you a bollocking at fulltime anyway.
The striker Pat thought was the most dangerous as an opponent was Jimmy Miller of Rangers, he wasn’t the most gifted player, but he was the most awkward and one of the best strikers. He was unorthodox so keepers couldn’t read him, he was also a physical player he always let the keepers know he was there. Though Gilzean and Cousin were the best strikers he’d played with.
St Mirren eventually went Part time and Pat was the only full time player on their books he got fed up being on his own training at the ground during the day plus training at night. Pat loved the Dundee area and still had his house in Dundee where his young family were being brought up. So the travelling was becoming a hardship, so Pat himself went part time and got a job with the NCR and continued to travel to Paisley from Dundee on a less frequent basis.
When Pat hit the veteran stage of his career at 30! he was approached by the Ex-Hibs Manager Walter Galbraith to play for Bradford Park Avenue and the draw of fulltime football was too much to turn down.
The following Season he then moved to Bradford City. “The equivalent of going to United.” he joked. Pat never realised he’d still be playing for them 7 years later at the ripe young age of 37.
His penalty saving prowess had followed him even to Bradford, as the Manager used to say “If somebody gets right through just pull him down, Pat will save the penalty.”
Pat believes his best ever save was against Luton Town who were a very good side, at that time they had Malcolm MacDonald in their side and they beat Bradford by four goals. A Luton fan sent Pat a picture of the save to be signed as he thought it was the best save he’d ever saw. The papers had reported it as a reflex save, but the fan was convinced Pat actually deliberately put himself in the way of the shot. It was a volley from just inside the six yard box. Pat says he read it, but was always far better at reflex saves than that of crosses.
His team mates would remind him of this fact after a certain game at Doncaster Rovers ground in the 2nd replay of a Cup game against Lincoln City. It was a freezing night where the pitch was rock hard and rutted, the game wouldn’t have gone on these days. A cross came over from the left wing, Pat went for it and so did the Centre half, Pat kept his eye on the ball and clashed with the Centre half so both missed it and the striker tapped it into the empty net.
Ten minutes later another cross came over from the left wing and both started to go for the ball again, then they both stopped and the Centre Forward just said thank you very much and Bradford were 2-0 down.
Pat got injured during the game, the half back slid in and caught him on both knees with his studs and they were swollen up, he could hardly walk and there were no substitutes in those days. When he got into the dressing room all the players were holding their fingers up in the sign of the cross. To make matters worse when he picked up one of the National papers it had in the leader story, “Don’t be surprised if Pat Liney’s mates call him Dracula today as he doesn’t like crosses.” It was an old joke, but it was terrible reading it in the National Press especially when you were feeling bad about it anyway. Bradford lost that game 4-2.
When he was 36 Bradford had appointed a new Manager and he thought Pat was nearing the age for retirement from the game, so invested a fair bit of money in a new Australian International keeper John Roberts. His International clearance never arrived in time for the start of the Season so Pat resumed his normal position between the sticks and in his own modest words said “I had a good game against Torquay and we won 3-0.”
Next up were Aston Villa and they were flying high trying to regain promotion and Pat describes it as one of those games where nothing could go wrong. He played a blinder and had one of those saves everyone that sees it remembers forever like the Gordon Banks save. They still talk about it yet at Bradford. Andy Lockhead headed the ball towards the top right corner and I dived across and got fingers to it to tip it over the bar.
Pat was then called into the Managers office the next day and got moaned at. Pat was wondering what he had done wrong.
The Manager was fuming, “I tell you you’re over the hill and ready to retire, so I spend all that money on a new keeper and you start putting in displays like that.”
Pat claims this gave him more confidence that he could still carry on, so in training if the Australian did 20 press ups he would do 25. It was this competitiveness he feels extended his career a further 3 years. Eventually they sold the Australian and signed John Ritchie from Brechin. Pat kept him out of the team initially too.
When one of his ex team mates at Bradford City took over as Manager of Bradford Park Avenue who were now in the Northern Premier League, he re-signed Pat back across the City to play in the reserves and Coach the youngsters, they were also willing to let Pat go part-time so he could establish himself in a job while he was still playing, so he played another 2 Seasons with Bradford Park Avenue. Then Bradford City lost the services of their reserve goalkeeper with a broken leg so he re-signed back to City on month to month contracts. So Pat certainly had a long and enjoyable career which finally ended at the age of 39.
Having sampled Football both North and South of the border Pat believes most Scottish Clubs could have held their own in the Old English 1st Division, as Dundee had beaten, Preston N.E and Birmingham City top clubs of the day, even Arsenal were a scalp.
In Pat’s opinion though, both Divisions standards have dropped considerably now, apart from maybe Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal as they have spent all the money. He feels the game is maybe faster which makes it exciting to that degree, but he feels the football has “gone out the window.”
Pat preferred the older game where the halfbacks came running through to shoot and there was nothing more exciting than two good wingers putting in crosses to two good strikers in the middle. Pat does admit though back in his time as a Player, a few players smoked himself included, this wasn’t thought to be a problem in those days, though he doesn’t believe it would be a good idea now with the training regimes nowadays.
He stayed associated with Bradford City by working in the hospitality lounges and during his playing days his profile in the Match day Programmes always mentioned how he’d won a Championship Medal, so guests would always ask to see it and he felt stupid having to say he’d lost it.
As recently as 2004 Pat was asked over to one of the Guests tables to speak to a guest who remembered Pat during his playing days at Bradford, he was a ball boy during those days. He said “My everlasting memory of you and Leslie Neil was 2.55pm every Saturday you’d be in the boiler room while the ball boys were getting ready to lead the players out having a quick smoke.”
What a way to be remembered?
Playing football and being well known has helped Pat get jobs after hanging up his boots, he’s never really needed a CV. He’s always managed to get job’s via word of mouth and it’s even helped him get contracts.
Pat was to be given a surprise by his sons for his 65th Birthday when they had got in touch with Dundee to try and get permission from the SFA to get a duplicate Medal for Pat. After a long wait the SFA finally gave clearance for the new Medal to be purchased.
Pat remembers the day he received his gift he looked at the small package and thought, “I’m not getting much for my birthday this year considering it was my 65th.”
When he first opened the box and saw the medal his first reaction was where had they found it? It was a brilliant gesture from them, but it still wasn’t the same as having the original though.
I’d told my boys before, that “There are two of them and only one medal, so when I pop my clogs you have my permission to sell the Medal.”
His son Kevin was aghast and said they couldn’t do that they’d give the Medal to the Club, after all there’s the ‘Bobby Cox Stand’, the ‘Andy Penman Lounge’, they might be able to have the “Pat Liney Lavvy.”
Pat eventually returned from Yorkshire back to Scotland and Perthshire an area he had always loved. He decided to take up Rugby at the age of 46 and play for Blairgowire Rugby Club. His son Derek, played for their first 15 as a winger and Pat decided he’d join in the training rather than just sit in the car. Eventually they formed a second 15 and Pat played for them at Fullback or on the wing. It was a position that was no stranger to him after all he was a goalkeeper from the days when the Keepers were allowed to be tackled.
Pat admitted with a rye grin on his face “it’s still a sport I don’t understand the rules of, but I just know my team mates would always praise me when I caught the ball and kicked up field into good positions.”
He even managed to get a game for the first 15 a few times due to holiday commitments or injuries and was always proud of the fact he was in the same side at the age of 46 as his son who was 16.
He was still fast as he was never heavily built and had maintained his same height and weight of 5’ 10” and 11 Stone 4 lbs, Pat believes he wouldn’t get a Professional football game now at that height and weight.
He only gave up Rugby at the age of 48 after dislocating an elbow.
Pat will be sixty nine years old this year and still has the desire to play, his current ambition is to take part in a penalty shoot out. In his own words, “that would be great fun.”
I’m sure Dundee fans would love to see this happen, what chance of a half-time shoot out between two Legends, Pat Liney the League Champion and Bert Slater the European Hero?
Pat frequently watches the Dundee games now and works in the hospitality lounges. He sees promise in a few of our current Players, he sees Lee Wilkie as having the capabilities of becoming a good Centre half, as he’s still young enough. He also thinks Derek Soutar has a bright future, fine praise from a Dundee Legend. Steven Robb also comes in for praise but feels he’s wasted as a left back. As for the Strikers he likes Stevie Lovell and Tam McManus.
I hope everyone who read about Pat’s long career enjoy it as much as I did listening to it. Pat is a real gentleman of the game and I’m sure he will get his wish of standing between the posts at Dens again facing Penalties. Having spoken with him and seeing the twinkle in his eye as you mention penalties, I wouldn’t bet on anyone scoring against him.
The Pat Liney Biography By
Robert Laird