BHMAgazino (Greece)

December 4, 2005

Fanny Ardant

THE WOMAN - DEFINITION OF FEMME FATALE

by Thanassis Lalas

Like a strong wind that hits on your face. You either lose it in front of her or you react to endure the ruthless strike of her glance. A dream that wakes you from the systematic hypnosis of your everyday life. A girl who doesn’t grow up, who doesn’t subdue her childishness in the experience of a lifetime. Incurably immature, a lover of life and art forever. A lover of ‘no’. » The only ‘yes’ I’ve ever said are the ones which were said like ‘no’. «What a beautiful woman», I’m thinking as I’m watching her entering la brasserie Le Coq. It is night, Paris is chilly, she is dressed in black wearing sunglasses, like Maria Callas in an evening walk. she greets me gracefully, takes her black velvet gloves off, crosses her legs, orders lemon tea with no sugar, talks fast, shouts, ignores the crowd around her, she is in her own world, she lures me into her world, it’s like we are in a private garden, it’s like we’ve been friends for years and we meet to chat a little before we go to sleep, she’s wholeheartedly present. She smells wonderful. She recounts the events of her life not only in words but with her whole body orchestrated to the essence. She directs the language by moving her hands left and right. When I pose a question, she bites her nails a little bit. When she answers, with all the liberties I don't have, I drive her hand away from her mouth with mine. She interrupts the narration and tells me to my face: «No man has ever dared to do that to me». We laugh. Then we stab each other with words. In one hour and fifteen minutes I’ve realized why she had enslaved Truffaut’s soul and those of so many others. A remarkable woman who knows how to go wherever the threat is hidden, because that’s the way life gets blood! To everyone who won’t be able to watch her today at Thessalonica’s Megaron performing “Phaedra” and “Medea”, I dedicate the following conversation.

Did you always want to do what you are doing today?

Yes, ever since I was a little girl I wanted to play in the theatre, but before we begin, Mr. Lalas, I would like to tell you something else. I like talking a lot and I’m glad that today we are going to talk together. People have warned me about you, you know… (laughs)

Why do you like talking?

Because I’ve noticed that when we talk we think more. I like dialectic a lot! And even though I’m aware that many of my colleagues don’t share my opinion, I like having a conversation with a journalist. You, journalists, often ask things that no one else dares to ask, you are often indiscreet, in oppose to most of the people we encounter professionally, who are usually indifferent. I personally prefer the indiscreet from the indifferent… And do you know why they are indifferent? Because they never judge us, they always tell us nice words, they don’t challenge us, they just pay us compliments… So they don’t help us think…

Do you consider you’ve found your way in life?

Like I’ve told you before, I always wanted to play in the theatre. Since I was a little girl I thought that all nice things in life are to be shared. So when I was a little girl and shared the same room with my sister, every time I was reading something nice, I was getting up from my bed and telling her: ”Listen, listen…” That was the beginning of theatre for me.

You were two sisters?

No, I have a brother as well.

Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Monaco. Don’t imagine stories with playboys and stuff though. Imagine that I was an intern at the convent, no resemblance to dolce vita! (laughs) However, what characterizes my childhood is traveling in general. I’ve traveled a lot as a child, because of my father’s job. He was a cavalry officer, you see, so the transfers were a common phenomenon for the family. We were based later in Monaco, when he became Prince Rainier’s counselor, with whom, by the way, were friends as well.

Being a military man, was your father severe?

Not at all. And in fact, I would like to tell you that everything I am as a person, I owe it to my father. And if I have learned something in this life, that is that no one must be characterized by the job he is doing. My father was a free man, an artistic nature, a generous man, intellectual…No resemblance to what comes to our minds when we talk about the military. He was a cavalry officer, and cavalry officers are usually people who adore adventure.

Do you like horses as well?

Yes, I like them very much. I looked upon my father, you know, because he had a divine way of riding his horse. He was able to give orders to the horses by using his little pinky, that’s not easy at all!

Your mother?

My mother loved my father. Period! (laughs)

Did she love you?

Yes. However, my father was like a mother to us, he was literally the soul of our home. He was able to take care of a dog, a baby, his wife… My father was the one who used to take care of us all! On the contrary, my mother was the organizational mind. She used to regulate all the affairs of the house being based on logic. The most positive thing for my brother and sister and me though was that we were fortunate enough to grow up in a house where mum and dad had a lot of love for each other.

In the end, what plays the most important role in our lives, the influences or the choices?

To be honest, I wonder if we actually choose. I believe more that there are things that appear in our way and we follow them. We often go towards a specific direction, but if we think it thoroughly there is no specific reason in that. It just happens. I mean the choices always involve searching but I don’t think that reasoning has the greatest part in our life. That’s why I believe that the influences, which aren’t based on logic, are essentially the most important ones. In general, I believe more to everything that influence us when we were children. In the vision of the world that is formed inside us, that specific phase of our life. I strongly believe that a person who was surrounded by love in the process of growing up, consequently will have nothing to be afraid of in his life.

Which is the most important age for you?

I think around 15. That time is the crucial moment of a person’s life. If I think in which moment of my life I was truly myself, I’ll tell you when I was 15. And since then, I haven’t changed.

What is the most dangerous influence on someone while growing up?

Money and power. These are the two biggest enemies for every man, worse than cancer. Or, perhaps, these two are the real cancer, in the sense that they corrupt and destroy a person’s soul. In order to acquire both (no one can have money without having power as well, or vice versa…), we are ready to make the biggest compromises and the most hideous deeds!

What would you like in your life, if not those two things?

I’ve always wanted to live intensively, but I didn’t know how. Maybe through love, maybe through my work, through the moments, the meetings, even through failures…I really wanted my life to be intense. A life of failure is for me more beautiful than an ordinary life, one without any intensity.

What do you mean when you say “intense life”?

To say no to everything! (laughs)

And how can anyone create romantic relationships if he says "no" all the time?

Sometimes we say “no” in a way that means “yes", Mr. Lalas. Don’t tell me you’ve never felt it!  Besides, these are the most beautiful “no” in our lives! (laughs)

I’m watching you, and I’m thinking that you are much better than my expectations.

Perhaps that is because of a great lesson I took in my life. The greatest! When I was very young, I was particularly fortunate to had been living in a completely artificial world - in Monte Carlo - beside a “Don Quixote” father. I mean that I grew up in an irrational environment, full of flatterers and adulators and that’s what I learnt to hate! On the other hand, in this environment I learnt to adore integrity, independence of the mind and the ability of a person to remain pure in this world of flattery. That was a big lesson for me.

Were your brother and sister like that too?

No, my brother and sister were sweeter kids than I was, and on a social level, they were more successful than I was. Boys, girls, parties, dancing, flirting… My brother and sister were less politically conscious than me, which is not to say that I was politicized as Left Wing or Right Wing. I was just more concerned. I remember though that I had a big Che poster above my bed. Of course everyone back then had these kinds of posters, but Che in Monaco? Can you imagine that? (laughs)

Whereas if you had an Albert poster… (laughs)

Oh, yeah. That would have been different… (laughs)

You mean you didn’t have a lot of friends when you were little?

No. To begin with, I was never very fond of school. That’s why I didn’t make any friends. Basically, I didn’t like the atmosphere of school. I regarded it as being a prison. Sure, I wanted to be a good student but only to finish an hour earlier. I said that I’ll spend 12 years in there, not a day longer. I got rid of school then, like someone leaves behind prison. That stopped me from developing friendships, though. I don’t know why. I learnt how to be a loner. Although, whenever I had relationships, they were very intense, even the friendly ones. I never fostered devotion, however. Additionally, I was showing trust to people who had my way of thinking about friendship, meaning people who didn’t consider calling or writing each other a necessity. Even if we saw each other once in ten years, that wouldn’t change anything. I never went to the store to buy shoes or to the hairdresser with company. Furthermore, I never talked about my unfortunate love affairs with other girls.

Did you talk to men about your love affairs?

Yes!  With one specific man who used to be a good friend of mine, we talked. He’s dead now. I could tell everything to this man. His name was Claude. Claude was the same age as my mother, something which was very important, as I felt I was being protected by him and that he was my friend at the same time.

What qualities does a friend like this possess?

An open mind and has no will to judge you, no social taboos and not having that petit bourgeois morality that most people have. A friend like this loves you without asking love in return. He listens. Anyway, you have the feeling that he protects you. He might see you being foolish but he knows when to tell you to stop. In a way a real friend gives you the sense of proportion. By listening, though, not acting.

Do you have the tendency to cross the line?

Yes.

What is there beyond the line?

I always thought that I have a wonderful guardian angel that every time I was in danger of being influenced by something (like, for example, alcohol), it protected me by knocking me on the ground – it means I was feeling awful every time I had too much. And as I was feeling sick, I was obliged to stop. I’ve thought of it often. I have always been drawn by that sensation of being lost because of things like alcohol, for example. I think it was more of a daydreaming that sensation than something specific I was living. I was dreaming it mostly, being lost in alcohol, because my body couldn’t physiologically absorb.

Which encounters are dangerous or when an encounter might become dangerous?

Your encounter in life with a person is dangerous when it leads to a point of disintegration. When, because of that person you lose your point of reference. I’m doing a specific job for a living and that job has certain rules. The man who will come into my life and tell me “Don’t worry, don’t give a damn about the rules of your job” is dangerous to me. Dangerous in the sense that the person in a way destroys you -- not necessarily on purpose -- but leading you that way. A man is not dangerous when he tells you “You have to wake up early tomorrow because you have a shooting and you have ten thousand miles to cross, sleep to rest…” Of course in each case it is up to us if we will let ourselves be destroyed or not. However, in love where everyone’s resistance is diminished, it is generally difficult to be drawn away by your feeling for a person and let yourself become lost.

If someone proposed to take you across by a boat to the island where all your wishes would be fulfilled, on the condition that you may never come back, exactly in the way it happens in “Stalker” by Tarcofski, would you make that trip?

I’ll rephrase your question. (laughs) If you asked me if I would go across a road, knowing that someone is waiting over there to stab me, I would respond “yes”.

Why?

I’m not the kind of person who would kill herself. In my mind though, a stab is something that happens rapidly. While you’re walking down the street, a fast, rapid, clear movement and…the end.

Have you experienced these kinds of stabs?

No.

Not even once? (laughs)

When someone tells me: “If you keep on like this, I will smash your face” or “I will stab you” I reply “Well, go ahead!". Oddly enough, however, I’m afraid of airplanes…or car crashes…or a bullet. On the contrary, a stab isn’t like that. To me that way of dying involves nobility. And it is very different from a shot, even though in that case you also end instantaneously. You know, the law punishes more cruelly the one who stabs someone than to the one who shoots a bullet. Because it is something that he wanted to do. To stab someone you must really want it. While a shot might be a matter of a spontaneous moment.

Can accidents be sometimes our luck?

Yes, off course! Accidents, failures, the moments when we feel we have lost everything…I consider the anger that is caused by a failure, this feeling that resembles the symptoms from rabies, being a form of luck. I don’t know if that will lead specifically to something good. But either way, it will lead to something. I believe that the accident is when something disappointing occurs that one hadn’t predicted, that’s the reason we must never be frustrated and give up. It maybe, for example, not getting a movie and that makes you feel disappointed, and two days later another movie happens to you which will be terrific!  Not being selected at the first one is nevertheless a failure, but it is finally proved to be…godsend. Meanwhile, we may refer to a theatrical play which wasn’t successful or a love which didn’t end happily. I personally believe -- I think it’s the way my character is -- that responsibilities are split in half. I don’t think that everyone else is always to blame. I’m not that kind of person. It’s like having a conversation which leads to nothing. Failure is like a slap in the face. You receive it and then, like horses, you do it again and again until you get it right.

Through failure we come to terms with ourselves more easily?

Yes, I absolutely believe that. Success is something that you almost don’t understand. While in failure you can give a logical explanation, because we confront failure. I, generally, can’t stand compliments. A compliment is like perfume. You put it on, it smells a little, it pleases you and then you get used to it and it doesn’t smell at all to you, only others can smell it until it gets evaporated so no one can smell it anymore. An insult or a curse, unfair as it may be, is like a light showing us in the darkness what we should have done. So it helps more. It’s strange. I had read somewhere that Maria Callas never kept letters besides the ones which contained insulting or swearing comments to her. And I understand why she used to do that. Because she always wanted to be alert. With compliments, everything is fine. While the little stabs, as we’ve said, bring us back to life. (laughs)

What is the price of success?

That you can’t disappoint anymore. Because after a success, knowing that nothing lasts forever, you start to fear. Take, for example, theatre: all successful leading actors are nervous before every performance. What exactly are they afraid of, someone would say, since they are already successful? Ah, well, they are afraid of being a disappointment this time, of not being able to live up to the reason people went to watch them that night. That is the price of success.

Do you believe in talent?

In each of us, there are some strong cards, like it happens at a game of poker. One strong card is talent. But you can’t believe just in that. Everyone have something inherent, but that is nothing without work. It needs work, love, longing and passion to succeed.

Can someone who has talent, lose it?

Yes. We might lose our talent out of stupidity, vanity and laziness. It is like the engine of a train that goes off but it keeps moving by impetus speed. I believe that talent is like throwing coal to the fire to keep it burning.

Which is more unfair: Having talent while someone else don’t or having talent and lose it?

Unfairness is not having any talent. When you have talent and you lose it, a part of the responsibility is on your shoulders. Why do we call the great opera singers “divas"? Because their grace is almost divinely originated. (Diva=goddess) By singing, they are able to touch such perfection with their art, this ability must have been given to them only by God...of course, always with the proper work. To me that’s talent. That dust falling from the sky and covering you…

Have you ever felt, either by performing or through a great love...touching the heels of God?

Yes, of course, and I have felt it. And what was remarkable in all cases was that I was aware of what was happening to me, like I was able to turn around and photograph all this. I knew that these moments were moments that I almost touched God.

What is God? An invention of human beings?

I always have the feeling that all these gods are sitting at the window from above and looking at us. (laughs) That’s what I think. In general, I believe a lot to all these. To good and evil. I don’t believe that there is Heaven or Hell. I do believe though that there is a dialogue between good and evil. Devil is up there looking at us too. Not just God. And do you want to know something? Devil is much trickier, much cleverer than all other gods.

Humor is a Devil’s or God’s creation?

Devil’s. Sure, there is something exciting about the devil. There is a challenge. Because everything down here are calling us to enjoy, to savor them. So, being able to converse with what is up there as well is for me a kind of fortune. The dialogue may oftentimes not lead anywhere, it may be inutile, arid. Nevertheless, when it is about theatre or love, we always address with open arms to what is up there…

When it is about cinema, we don’t?

For some scenes. Because their degree of difficulty is minor. But in cinema too, when a scene is very difficult, you say: ”God, help me get through this”.

When did you realize that you would become an actress?

At some point in my life, when I was a student, I was making money by working as a secretary for Aix-en-Provence festival. I used to attend the rehearsals of “Cosi fan tutte” or “Don Giovanni” etc. in the evenings. I liked that tremendously, I considered myself very lucky to have been able to being there! Until, one day, I heard a voice inside me saying: «There will come a moment when you will be on the other side as well…”And that without having any acting courses…I knew it though, I felt a certainty like the one crazy people feel. And every time I was listening to the director give orders to the two marquises of “Cosi fan tutte” I felt the adrenaline inside me rising…I wasn’t talking to anyone about all these because they would think I was crazy. Deep down, I was certain. Theatre for me since then is life!

And how did you finally cross to “the other side”?

That happened when I went to Paris. The moment I got there I went with my brother to a friend of our father, a director, who was working on an Offenbach opera at the time, to ask him if he had a job for me. Specifically, the day we went to meet him it happened to be the official premiere of the play as well…When we realized it, my brother said: «Are you crazy? There is no chance of seeing you.” Indeed, this man was actually at a stage of insanity that day…I knocked on the door and he screamed from inside: «Come in! » I opened the door, stood there and told him: «My name is Fanny Ardant and I would like to ask you if you have any job for me. » He said to me: ”Whaaaat?” I know what I did was very risky, I know I could have lost everything that day, simply because it was absolutely normal that this man couldn’t deal with anything else on the day of the premiere, but I wanted so much to work that I didn’t have time to think. Oddly enough, the director looked at me and hired me to work without payment. It goes without saying that I accepted without a second thought! (laughs)  In the beginning, he used me in an administrative position. Sometime later there was someone in my path who asked me: «Would you like to become an actress?” ”Yes.” I responded. “Aren’t you taking classes somewhere?”  “No, is it essential to?”  “But of course, you have to go to a drama school, to Conservatoire."  Since that moment, I was feeling like all doors were opened for me. And I always feel that I owe it to that director who opened the door for me!

Do you believe that others finally open the door for us? Or perhaps we open it ourselves?

Both. I have always considered life as a jungle. You are on one side, I’m on the other and whoever can grab a branch first like Tarzan and try to get to another tree... Some of these plants are very strong and can take you far away but there are others that break so you fall through. That’s why, when we’re talking about choices, believe that we have very little to choose from in our profession. For example, an actress never chooses beforehand which director she will work with. It’s not like that. Normally, the director comes and asks you: “Would you like to work with me?” and you respond “Yes". This is more or less how the choices are being made. You can also say “no” if you don’t agree with the work of the specific director and that’s a choice. I don’t believe at all in scheduling a person, for instance, for the next two years. I believe that there is a chaos, a disorder which we must follow, like dogs follow a scent wherever it might take them.

Our encounters are determined by talent or our madness?

I believe that they are determined by something uncertain. The minute we meet someone, something suddenly happens that we can’t explain. We can’t tell why we feel drawn to him. On the contrary, when the aura is negative, there we just know that we don’t want something more to happen between us. To me all these are things which can’t be explained through logic and they don’t have anything to do with either art or with the profession. We may, for instance, make a failed movie but our relationship with the director remains excellent, because through the movie we can distinguish his personality, his talent…This kind of elements can be seen by the very first meeting, I believe. I personally put a lot of basis on how my first encounter with a person makes me feel. If I sense a distance in the air, I say: “Never mind". I remember my first meeting with Antonioni…He couldn’t speak! Nevertheless, I sensed immediately the security of that relationship. I knew I would love this person. I knew I would want to work with him very much. I don’t think that it is about your exchange with a person nor about the kinship that may be between you. I believe that the most important role has insanity, an insanity which exists and you can feel it. This amalgamation of feelings which resembles a little to fear, a little to joy, a little to power, with this thing that makes you feel that you are fragile like a glass.

Is there a common way in madness?

Yes. People who are mad speak the same language. The moment they see each other they understand that there is a relation. (laughs) You, for instance, I don’t know you at all…Indeed I feel a relation. I instantly felt that relation. From the moment I saw you. However, inside, madness or the irrational, it is hiding the absolute purity!

Great plays are a result of a brilliant mind or an inflamed soul?

Great plays are made by people with perceptiveness. Perceptive is someone who sees, understands, moves forward before all of us do. The great play though can’t be made by a man who is extremely clever but his soul is cold as ice. The great artist is at the same time a great lover of humanity. Between logic and passion there is a balance. I think that from this balance there can result in a masterpiece.

What is instinct?

Instinct is the wings that suddenly grow at our backs and make us fly or it can be a wolf…I believe that there is something dark which resides in all of us, something which isn’t clear…That is instinct.

What is it that sometimes overshadows our instinct and leads us to faulty choices?

This is because of the fact that people are shabby-genteel. We think that strategy, thinking, calculation are things more logical and more certain. But we are mistaken. Surely, instinct can be more destructive sometimes, but it is what we say in cards “Double or nothing!”

Do great plays contain mistakes?

Yes, I believe that. Our signature is our weakness. These are the ones that give us glory. Why do we always say that charm is more important than beauty? Because charm means that you are a person with flaws, while cold beauty means nothing. The same with a play without any mistake. Ultimately nothing great ever happens. Or to put it in other words: I don’t think there is a perfect work of art.

How did you choose to perform Medea?

I loved her and I was in the mood to play this part. I think that my love led me to her. I’ve always felt very passionate with ancient Greek writers’ texts.

Are there persons that you would like to meet and you haven’t?

People I usually admired happened to be musicians, writers, and I preferred reading or listening to them rather than meeting them in person.

Can you recall such a meeting?

Yes. I remember that one day a Russian orchestra director told me something that changed my whole life. I was extremely upset because my father had just passed away. This man said to me: “don’t fade away because you never know for whom you might be the light". And that changed my life! I think it helps a lot not knowing for whom you might be the light. That man of course told me that to suppress my grief, but it has helped me a lot in my life since then. And I believe that it can help every person.

Are there any other phrases which have determined your life?

A lot, but this one that I just mentioned, I really wanted to share with you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you also, Mr. Lalas. This has been a very interesting conversation, perhaps one of the most interesting ones I’ve ever had. Thank you very much.

© FANNY ARDANT Online

Translated by Mimi

Edited by George Sand